叠测听, MFA Sculpture & Post Studio Practice 蜜糖直播 Boulder (Candidate)
October 19, 2021
Tell me a bit about your background and what you are currently working on in the area of community-engaged work (research, teaching, or creative work)
I work part-time as a communications person for the Southwest Folklife Alliance. We are a non-profit and have an affiliation with the University of Arizona, but we work in the area of arts, culture, and folklife. A lot of what I have learned in the six or seven years working with them is a deeper kind of community engagement. The way we work at the Southwest Folklife Alliance has reoriented me to a better way of working with the community.
I work in multiple disciplines, but I鈥檇 say most of my engagement work has been in the realm of dance and performance. When I finished graduate school I worked as a writing director for an arts organization and taught teenagers writing and interviewing. It was all about telling the community鈥檚 stories- they got published into a youth magazine so that became part of the work and helping young people go into their personal experience, but also looking at their community where they live. We used to call it 鈥渢he I and the We鈥�. I have found that is a very useful way of thinking about art-making and community work. There鈥檚 always the I - the self - and what鈥檚 your impulse, but there鈥檚 also what the community is up to and how they鈥檙e responding to their stances; these may overlap and they may be distinct at any given moment.
From there, I took that idea of community and personal stories and brought that into the dance and director work. I've just been focused on community questions like where I see my community having needs or struggles. And that is both human and environment, although, in more recent years, I'm much more interested in how we interact with the environment.
I have been doing this work for about 20 years. I think part of the motivation is that I have strong ideas, but I also really love to collaborate. There's often a sense of 鈥渨hat do you think?鈥�--I think that's been more of an asset than I realized because that kind of question invites collaboration. Then there can be an exchange of ideas, and I love that.
I'm a community-minded person and an activist, so I'm always interested in how the art can serve, and what's the desired impact. I want people to come around the table together in harmony, and I tend to think of ways that my art can help make that happen. And then, more recently, it's about including at that table plants and animals that we might not think of as part of our community. We can so easily forget that they're very much a part of our community.
What values do you try to uphold within your work?
One of the main values I'm working with now is expanding the definition of community to include plants and animals. And thinking about them, more as equal and not something that we dominate, but that applies to community engagement too because the value is to bring as many diverse voices to the table and allow participation.
I think another value I have is to illuminate: to create or illuminate the beauty in the overlooked. Which is one definition of folklife- hidden in plain view. I'm interested in celebrating the overlooked, but also-- finding the beauty-- sometimes in the horrific.
Another value I'm still learning is about how the more specific something is: the more universal it is. For example, I remember after the 鈥�Standing with Saguaros鈥� project, I was moved. It felt so profound. I remember talking to a friend, unsure if other people would feel the same from standing with a saguaro. My friend told me, 鈥淚 think if you found it profound, and you bring that sense of what you are talking about, people aren鈥檛 going to think it鈥檚 stupid.鈥� Even though it was a very personal specific experience to me, when everyone else did it they had their personal specific experiences and then there was something collective and universal.
Sometimes we just think our ideas, our own experiences are not interesting-- but it's almost like the rawer you get-- the more accessible they become. Your most intimate moment of what you would voice to the world is probably the thing that's going to resonate the most with people.
At the Folklife Alliance, we talked a lot about leading from behind because we're working in communities and we're upholding traditional artists, folk communities, and indigenous communities. We want to leverage our power for their benefit. So it's less of a 鈥渢ake charge鈥� and more of a 鈥渨hat do you think?鈥� It鈥檚 important to know where you stand on this one when you're doing a project.
In community-engaged arts, there can be a similar sensibility I need to decide as an artist. What's most important? My idea, or is it the community voices that are going to get heard? Even if it's kind of messy and maybe not as polished or pretty.
I think my value when it comes to community engagement is that those other voices have to have a lot of weight at the end of the day and I'm surrendering to that. I might not even have a strong visual presence or aesthetic because it's more about the community鈥檚 voice. That feels like an important value to always be working with or thinking about.
Have you ever run into conflicts in upholding your values? If so, what did you do?
Well, early on, the first time I co-directed something with someone was with another dancer. We worked well together, but we didn't always see things the same.
Trusting your collaborator鈥檚 vision even if you don鈥檛 initially agree.
We would let the work go more towards one vision over another. I learned how to let go, and then to see an audience respond positively to her vision was very instructive for me. Even though I didn't like it, I could see that other people did, and so it taught me that in collaboration I don't always have to be right. There are many viewpoints-- I mean it seems very obvious-- but if I hadn't learned that I might be a difficult person to work with. It鈥檚 the understanding that you can trust your collaborator鈥檚 way even if you don鈥檛 initially agree.
Even when the organization is behind the art, there can be a lot of educating. Sometimes they are only behind it in a certain way because they're not used to working with artists. When I was working with the National Park, this big government entity, with decades of particular ways of looking at things and doing things. It's a bureaucracy and change is slow. I was working on a project called聽. I was able to get permission to bring young people to an area of the park where people don't usually go to stand with saguaros. On this day I was bringing a group of Tohono O鈥檕dham girls from a school called聽Ha:san. Their people have collected fruit from the cactus forever and they've lived in the desert forever. The park took over some of their land.
It felt very magical to come with these girls, and have them have this experience which their ancestors have had, but in a different way. There's a beautiful picture window in the park visitor center and the park ranger that I was working with said, 鈥淵ou guys are good just go over there, make sure you don't drift in front of the window view.鈥�
If you go to the visitor center you watch this film-- the screen lifts-- and then you have this beautiful view of the desert through the window. The kids ended up wandering over into the view. The park ranger was concerned about the next group I was going to bring since the girls did get into the picture window. On one hand, I understand, but on the other hand, like God forbid a native girl would be seen next to a saguaro and ruin the experience for a visitor trying to see the pristine nature of the park. The parks are for preserving nature in its pristine form, but we know that it never was pristine anyway. I was trying to do something very different and say we've always been a part of this park and we should stand next to the saguaros. It was kind of a clash of culture really-- he comes from this culture that believed wilderness was one thing-- but that鈥檚 not what I believe and that鈥檚 not what my art was believing.
How have you built relationships with community partners, from the beginning stages to holding relationships throughout a collaboration and beyond?
Do you have any specific examples you can share? Or specific advice?
Civic Practice in Art鈥攃o-designing (as opposed to studio or social practice)
Do you know Michael Rohd鈥檚 work? He is a theater maker. He was one of the directors of Sojourn Theater but now he's at Arizona State University and he's been working in community engagement in the arts for a long time. From him, I learned about the studio to the civic continuum. Studio practice is you and your studio doing your thing. Social practice is you doing your thing, but now involving the community, but it's still pretty artist-driven. Civic practice is you and the community creating something. The continuum was helpful for me. I think a lot of my projects fall in the middle. I have an idea and I want to involve the community. I was still pretty artist-driven, which has its advantages, but it can also be challenging because you may or may not always get the full community buy-in from the partner. The partner might say, 鈥淥h yeah that sounds good, we want a mural鈥� and you say, 鈥渨ell I don't do murals鈥�. Many times when I had a partner, they were willing to do certain things, but then they didn't come to the performance. It was like they didn't understand that they were part of this thing in a way.
The last one, civic practice is when you co-design something with a community partner. In co-designing, you鈥檙e just more in service rather than driving the project. Hopefully, you're working with an organization that you trust to know the issue. You trust them to know the things that you don't know and they trust you to know the aesthetics or the ways of engaging. I think that's kind of the truest form of community engagement when you're in tune and see your strength as an asset and you're in tune with what they need, and what they want.
One of the last projects I did was funded by the Center for Performance and Civic Practice. The funding was for artists and non-arts people-- like an organization-- to address an issue together. I worked with an environmental organization and the county. We were the only group working with the municipality. There were six pairs of artists with civic organizations, and so we spent a lot of time learning how to design a project together. It was important to understand where the person stood in their organization and how much power they had. For instance, are they a supervisor or have someone above them? You might meet a water coordinator who is excited about working with artists, but she鈥檚 got a supervisor with no interest. So she doesn't have a lot of power to make decisions or approve. I know I am getting in the weeds here, but I think they're important things to think about as you come to the table with an organization.
Stemming from the same question, when you find community partners-- are you generally meeting them through the grants that you're receiving, or are you sometimes reaching out on your own. How does that process work?
In my case, I often reached out because many of the projects were more artist-driven. Sometimes I reached out when I knew a funding source. This is maybe less advisable than to reach out and not know a funding source, because if they're interested then they're going to also help raise the money for it, and then it becomes more collaborative.
In the Saguaro project, I did all the fundraising, so inherently it was uneven, the National Park did what they did, and they were willing, but I think I think it makes a lot of difference if an organization is willing to help raise the money for you and your project.
I think sometimes more and more organizations that understand the power of the arts are looking for artists: that's kind of a shift in the last decade. Then sometimes it's a personal relationship-- I've known people who've run nonprofits and we're like, 鈥淥h, we should do something.鈥�
What initiatives/strategies/methods do you take to get feedback from community partners...and also participants in activities? And how often do you do so?
It depends on the project. In the more collaborative project, we just had regular meetings. Establishing how the feedback will go at the beginning of the project is important. Maybe you have some sort of rubric for yourself so you know how communication will happen. Establishing and agreeing to those norms is helpful. Build in the time for it, and don't ignore things when they are crunchy, and make sure there鈥檚 space for those discussions.
How have you worked with non-dominant communities (BIPOC, low income, rural, etc)?
It鈥檚 all about partners, at the Folklife Alliance that's how it works, we have established relationships with other artists and communities. As an individual artist, that would be working with a community partner who serves that constituent. A very early project I did was in connection with a food bank called, 鈥�We Are What We Eat鈥�. They had a garden program, and so we were able to offer dance workshops and conversations with the communities that were part of that garden program. There were Mexican ESL classes, there was the Pascua Yaqui tribe, but they had a strong relationship already with that partner and that's what enabled it. I think finding and building those relationships is key. My inclination would probably be to create collaborative relationships within those communities and with other artists that represent those communities.
How can community-engaged scholars work to build access and inclusion for nondominant communities?
Through partners as well, I feel like the times that I created access to something because even if it was not a formal partner, it was some sort of contact or leader from those constituencies, who helped create that sense of trust. It depends on what it is.
Showing up and being present is important. Recently, I was in Alaska working on my book. One of the characters is indigenous and I really want to get it right. During my last few weeks in Alaska, I met somebody who is going to be a reader. She鈥檚 from the Tlingit tribe. That would have never happened, had I not been there. I was able to meet with her-- and walk with her and talk with her-- versus an email. There's just something about putting your body in space, and showing up that goes a long way.
Even a lot of the time, our work at the Southwest Folklife Alliance is this way. When I think of scholars I think of folklorists: you just hang out for a long time before you even start making sense of or interviewing. I think that's a powerful way to build trust as an outsider. You're showing that you're putting in the time.
Hybrid Modalities / Pandemic and Post-pandemic: How do you create an environment of inclusion in remote modes?
We have done a lot of virtual things and conversations that then became live programming. We are going forward with our annual folklife festival-- but it's outside, and things could still change.
I think especially when we were talking about marginalized communities, compensation is important. Build compensation into fundraising. That's a very strong value at the Folklife Alliance which so we're always making sure artists are paid for things.
I am going to pay the reader of my novel as I am interviewing her. That is kind of going back to the access question but offering compensation is very important. In times of Covid, some communities are particularly vulnerable. If you can, build compensation into your grants, especially for people who aren't affiliated with a university or an organization.
What is something you鈥檝e learned from doing this work that you wish you had learned sooner?
I wish that I knew more about the co-designing of projects sooner. I think everything I have done has been valuable, but I think initially I struggled a lot because I felt pretty alone during the work. I thought I had these community partners, and I did have them on paper, which was good for the grant, but I didn't really have them. So I often felt very alone, which for someone who likes to collaborate wasn't great. From my perspective, I just felt like I was always doing the heavy lifting. With co-designing, I have a more specific collaborator that I would be working with.